Kylie in Sweet Dreams; photo by Alison Huth

interviews by Simon Sellars

‘Sweet Dreams: Back to Waking Life’ was originally published in Subterrain magazine #1, December 2005.

The play Sweet Dreams took an unflinching look at the battle that Big Issue vendors Paul, Kylie, Jim, Robert and Allan fought to survive drug addiction, physical disabilities, incarceration and the trauma of mental illness. Heavy psychological territory, then, and totally suited to the multimedia approach weaved into the stories by directors Nadja Kostich and Jeremy Angerson. Ultimately, though, the play is about survival, friendship, healing and inner strength. We’ve already seen how Nadja and Jeremy coped with the emotional abyss Sweet Dreams excavated; now let’s see how the performers fared.

How did you find the experience of performing in Sweet Dreams? Was it painful to put your life story up there for all to see?

PAUL: It opened my mind up again. It made me face my own fears, know what I mean?

KYLIE: I really enjoyed it. I like singing. I was in choir at school and I got to sing a piece in Latin for Sweet Dreams.

JIM: The play taught me one very important thing: the value of comradeship. I always knew Kylie and Paul and Robbie, but me and Allan hardly talked to each other before Sweet Dreams.

Robert; photo by Ilana Rose

ROBERT: It was good because it gave us lots of compliments. It gave me more confidence; before I wouldn’t speak up about anything.

ALLAN: Getting my story out helped me a little bit with recovery, but it brought back a lot of nightmares. I went through hell. I talked about being molested by my uncle, by my father. I went through hell. I opened up my heart to do this play, right? And I go through nightmares.

Do you regret doing it, then?

ALLAN: I just wish we had some support. I ain’t seen the directors since.

KYLIE: Well, what support’s meant to be there?

PAUL: What Allan’s trying to get at was that everyone was intensely bringin’ out the most personal details of their life, right? And at the end of the play we was just cut off. We couldn’t do nuthin’ except go back to work as a vendor, and then there’s hundreds of people walkin’ past you every day and they say, ‘Hey, you were in that play’. I had friends of my family who I don’t even know, and they’ve seen the play and they’re asking me, ‘Did that really happen, Paul?’ or ‘Do you remember me?’ It’s scary. I would have liked a couple of months’ break after that, just to sort my mind out because it was pretty intense.

ALLAN: A lot of people from television came to see us after the play; they all said we had talent. But if we’ve got all this talent that they reckon we’re so good at, why haven’t we got people ringing the Big Issue and saying ‘Let’s employ this guy?’

Well, there’s very little acting work in Australia, even for professional actors. There’s no real TV or film industry in this country any more.

Allan; photo by Ilana Rose

ALLAN: Yeah, but I felt that we were used, I really did. Because of the play me and Paul were asked to be extras on Stingers and we were meant to be paid, but the production closed down and we never got nothing.

That’s my point: the industry can’t sustain itself. I wouldn’t say you were targeted. There are a lot of out-of-work actors in this country.

ALLAN: Still reckon we were used. I would have liked some counselling, some support, you know what I’m saying? I put my life up there.

But is that the director’s role? Sure, they’re there to help you get across your life story, but they can’t be counsellors at the same time. I think that’s asking too much of anyone.

KYLIE: I got a lot out of it; I don’t think we were used. I think we all worked together and Jeremy and Nadja really brought out the best in us. There was a method to what they got us to do. We were doing improvisations physically, or they got us to do a writing exercise. It’s funny the way you remember things; writing down what happened in my life made me realise I’d always remembered things in a different order.

ROBERT: Nadja and Jeremy were the best – they were really professional.

They must have done something right, because the play got a lot of attention in the media.

KYLIE: Yeah, but when I was interviewed in the papers they didn’t quote me properly. I’d say one sentence and they’d miss out the end of it.

They need to edit because of space restrictions; I’ll need to edit this interview.

KYLIE: Yeah, but cutting a sentence in half? They changed the whole meaning of what I wanted to say. But the other papers were funny; one said I was an attention seeker!

I reckon you’d need to be to be a vendor. Do you enjoy selling the Big Issue?

ROBERT: It’s great. I mean, every now and then it is; when it’s summertime I enjoy it. It’s not fun when it’s cold.

Jim; photo by Ilana Rose

JIM: Vending’s given me a chance to make me self-esteem better, to live with meself better and meet wonderful people who I’ve made many friends out of, down the market where I work.

PAUL: I find it pretty cool but what I don’t like is the people that give me the shits, you know, just smart remarks. You get plenty of that.

JIM: Yeah. Like when our holiday edition came out. It had this big wave on the cover and it was put together before the tsunami, but it came out just as the tsunami hit. And one of me customers said to me, ‘That’s wrong’. I said, ‘What do you mean, madam?’ And she said, ‘Well, youse are making a profit out of other people’s misfortune’. I just said, ‘Fair enough ma’am, that’s your opinion’. But it was beyond our control. The tsunami happened after it was printed.

PAUL: I copped it, too. This old lady was giving me that much bullshit for about 20 minutes, saying how disgusting I was, callin’ me racist and all this, and I said ‘Why? I was married to an Indonesian’. Then I said to her, ‘Just wait a second, madam’. And I started spruiking in a really loud voice: ‘Get yer latest copy of the tsunami folks! Only four dollars a wave! Come and surf the tsunami!’ That pissed her right off. Never seen her again.

Did you do any other creative work before Sweet Dreams?

PAUL: I worked as an extra. I was in a shocker of a film called Trojan Warriors. I didn’t enjoy that; terrible film.

ALLAN: I did a show with Narcotics Anonymous at a convention. You know the song ‘Hey Big Spender’? We changed that to ‘Hey Big Sponsor’ and I went on stage and sung it in drag. I also played Dr Kevorkian in a wrestling ring. You know, ‘Dr Death’ – I played him as a wrestler.

ROBERT: I did some plays with Footscray Community Centre.

JIM: I done nothin’.

KYLIE: I acted as a kid and then I was on Young Talent Time doing four-part harmonies. I was part of the Ozanam Community Centre band (p44) for a while and I’m still in contact with some of the guys; it would be good if we could get funding to continue on with that. It was great for the people who performed on the CDs because they’d never done anything like that before. It just made them feel really good. Then a couple of years ago we all did Arnold Zable’s writing workshop.

Did you enjoy working with Arnold?

KYLIE: Oh yeah! Give him my love, would ya? He told us to paint with words and that was just the best advice. He told me I’d found my voice.

Do you feel comfortable telling me about your circumstances, about how you came to be vendors for the Big Issue?

PAUL: If I felt uncomfortable about it I wouldn’t have done the play, ya know what I mean? Nah, I don’t give a shit. I’m 42 and I’ve been a drug addict for 20-odd years, got into this and that. Escaped jail in Australia but got caught overseas.

JIM: ‘And I’m in lurrvvve!’

Paul; photo by Ilana Rose

PAUL: He’s trying to put words into my gums; yeah, I’m in love. Kylie, she’s my second half.

KYLIE: We knew each before the Big Issue, Paul and I – we both grew up in the same suburb. We met up again in Arnold’s workshop after all those years. I thought, ‘I know that face’.

ROBERT: I’m 58 and I joined the Big Issue because I wanted something to do and a bit more money to spend at weekends.

ALLAN: I started off in Oz House (see p82) nine years ago. Someone there told me about the Big Issue; I just built it up from there and haven’t stopped. It’s kept me out of jail – I’ve been out for 12 years now. I was inside for manslaughter in 1990, self defence, and I was inside for armed robbery in 1983. The Big Issue saved my soul.

So what’s your story, Kylie?

KYLIE: I’m 35 and I lived a life of confusion from when I was 20 to now; drunken oblivion confusion actually, just craziness. I just kind of lost my mind. I sort of had a different brain to everyone else at school. I was going crazy from about 15 on and then I went mad at 20. They put me away and then they put me on medication. I’ve been juggling different pills and things, still tryin’ to work out what suits me best. But I’m definitely a lot more clear-headed than what I have been. I can relate to people generally. The Big Issue has given me a community and a family and that’s helped.

PAUL: Yeah, she was on the outside lookin’ in, but I dragged her right into the middle!

What about you, Jim? Any last words?

JIM: I came to the Big Issue because of boredom; I don’t wanna talk about my life. It’s all in the play.